Ep#105 The Best Cloud Security and Data Protection

Host: Eric

All right, well thank you very much. We've got a really great panel that's ahead. This is a chance for us to explore one of the hottest topics I think that's going to be happening here at the AWS re:event this week, which is wrapped around the idea of protection, security, data management, everything that we do, we talk about data gravity, we talk about data latency, whatever the thing you say, data something. But in the end, data has a lot of properties that are valuable to the business. They affect the technology and all the processes wrapped around it. And on top of that, it affects a lot more because what we've got now is we hear more and more about ransomware. We hear more and more about the concept of immutable backups for other purposes other than just actual data, pure data protection, but actually doing live recovery for other development purposes. There really is this incredible opportunity ahead. And so we're lucky because we are joined here by two fantastic folks here who are joining us from Cohesity. And first of all, big shout up because thank you to the Cohesity team for being part of supporting our community event here this week. And you folks are doing a lot. So with that, if you don't mind, we'll let you folks introduce yourself. So we'll start with you Jen, lead us out.

Guest: Jed

Hey everybody. I'm a Jed Wallace, I'm a staff technologist with been here for a little bit and yeah, I'm excited to talk data protection.

Host: Eric

And the fun thing too, you're sort of fresh to the twitterverse and the social verse. Well, so we're breaking you into That's right.

Guest: Jed

In a fire here for you. I wouldn't have it any other way. Throw me in the deep end.

Host: Eric

So the fun thing I want to do is we'll talk about a bit of your origin story too, cuz that's actually very interesting in the transition from absolutely being on the live customer sides to being on the other side of the desk so to speak, where you're now taking what you learned in the field and being able to give that back in a broad set of customers, which is pretty cool. And I found it's one of the most absolutely profound ways to when you're talking to customers, you get what they're living. Because quite often as tech vendors and I lived this life for almost a decade, we just have this like, oh no, we're solving a complex problem and it seems like the most important thing in the world. And that's because we sell one thing that does one thing and that to us is the most important thing in the world. But realizing it's like one iota of the greater day-to-day ops. So there's a lot of neat things we can explore on that one that

Guest: Jed

You bring up. A good point because that perspective of literally just coming off of the 24/7 administration and engineering side that really does, it's got a nice broad reach to customers when you talk shop and everything, you kind of understand where they're coming from because it hasn't been 10 years since you actually we're in a data center racking and stacking servers and storage and all that good stuff.

Host: Jon

I'm getting nostalgia with that data center racking and stacking and I wanted to continue on with the introduction as we go on. But we're worry, we're going to reminisce about some old times together. We'll be Bob. Well, so also here we have Vic, but why don't you do an introduction? Yeah,

Guest: Vic

Absolutely. First of all, thanks for having us. We look forward to these things. We're excited to be here. So my name is Vic Camacho. I'm a principal technologist with Cohesity as well. And so essentially I'm a glorified speaker,

Host: Eric

<laugh>

Guest: Vic

Glorified

Host: Jon

Storyteller. He's a guy near and dear to our hearts who's very experienced in all this podcasting and conversational Saturday and he's given us some tips and tricks. And Eric, why don't you do your introduction, and then we'll roll on and get a kick.

Host: Eric

Yeah, I guess, I mean I have the joy, sort of similar to Jed's story coming from the customer side. I worked for a couple of decades in financial services systems architect, covered the gamut stuff, and then got into working in the vendor space, worked with Turbonomic for, well I worked, I worked for VM Turbo for three years, then I worked for Turbonomic for five years, then I worked for IBM for one year. Funny, I never changed bosses, but I worked at three different places. And then now I've launched my own company, GTM Delta, which is kind of cool. So it's neat to have gone through that progression and then come out the other side and shot out into the independent world again, which is kind of neat. And of course Jon, you I'd worked together for a minute and we've done a lot of stuff collaborating here.

Host: Jon

So a quick intro introduction, Jon Myer Myer media content creator, the whole nine yards. And I think I'm part of the old school and I don't feel old, but I'm getting up there in age and that the nostalgia of talking about data centers and rack racks stack and I've worked in actually a web hosting company where we put the servers into the racks and all the networking on it. And I think that brings a broad experience of what we're going to talk about and how we're going to jump into things and leading with that, I'm going to let you lead our conversation now.

Host: Eric

I'm going to start with you Jed, consider carrying on what we talked about in the intro, the idea of Leah lived experience. And we've seen a lot of changes in just data management. It's a weird thing. We talk about data management and it's hard to pin down what it means. But let's start there. First of all, let me at the very top, let's describe Cohesity and I'd love to then fit stuff into where you guys are solving a problem. But let's work from the data up and how people are using it.

Guest: Jed

Well, I mean from my experience, well we'll go ahead and we'll talk about Cohesity and what we do. Bringing all your workloads into one central location, to me that is the nutshell. That is Cohesity because no one else is doing it. No one else is bringing all these different various workloads no matter where their locale is. Whether it's in the data center, whether it's in the cloud or it's a remote site we're going to bring it into one pane of glass. And it may sound simple to some people, but when you come from engineering and administration, it's a big deal because when you have all these different workloads and all these different areas, it's cumbersome to manage wasting a lot of man-hours on this. And believe it or not, just coming off less, not even a year from the whole 24/7 support roles. Backups is even in this age of ransomware and everything is honestly still with a lot of customers, a afterthought. And they don't understand that yes, backups are not the sexiest thing, but, it's necessary because if you're hit with a ransomware attack, you have to be able to recover. And with cohesive, we can help people do that in a very, very efficient and quick manner.

Guest: Vic

And just a dovetail off of that, I think it's a lot of this isolated data. We have all these silos of data everywhere and I think it just kind of crept up on everybody because you have workloads running everywhere now, and as an organization, if when you're on the other side, it just kind of happens. So now sometimes you don't even know that your teams are using various clouds, right? And so now you know, get hit with a bill and you're, or

Host: Jon

Multiple

Guest: Vic

Bills or multiple bills and now you're trying to figure out how we reign this all in. There are budgetary concerns. How do you manage data especially sensitive data, regulatory kind of data that's sensitive data in nature and under regulatory control? And so being able to use something like a system that allows you to bring it all into one to manage it, it's really important today. And I think people are starting to realize that because audits happen and if they can't effectively happen, if you can't effectively say, Hey, we know where our data's at. And if you don't have some kind of classification or are able to classify that data, discover it, and then tag it, how do you protect it? You can't protect what you don't know. And so that's kind of our wheelhouse now. We're trying to do that and trying to help customers manage a lot of that data. Now

Host: Jon

Do you feel that back then when you had your data centers, everybody understood where your data centers were at, you understood you had two data centers and you only had to worry about those? Now with the expansion of cloud and multi-cloud, you have multiple data centers, and multiple regions, which are considered data centers. It has grown that they don't understand where their data is residing.

Guest: Vic

Yeah, absolutely. And that's part of it, right? Because now you have things like GDPR, right? Yeah. And putting your data in the cloud, it's going to get replicated to other locations just for full tolerance purposes. How do, you know where it's at? Can the cloud service provider give you that information? Maybe not. And so I think that's part of being able to understand where your data is at is step one, protecting is step one, but understanding where it's at is equally important because you have to be able to rein that all in the case of a ransomware attack and being able to, or data exfiltration even worse. So we have to be able to provide that for customers.

Guest: Jed

And I think you mentioning, I mean a lot of customers, it's a thing where they don't know where their data's at. Meaning that, like Vic said that sometimes they're not aware of I have a copy or a data set and a data center and then I have the same set in say S3 or something like that. And sometimes the left-hand doesn't know what the right is doing. And so I think with cohesive, we kind of help eliminate that problem with those legacy solutions and kind of bringing it into one platform so it makes it easier to manage and see your data and how it's being protected and how it's being used.

Host: Eric

Now the one thing, if we go now, that's the cool thing because I think that gives a perfect staging of why it matter to us that are data center operators, cloud operators especially, we're operating hybrid environments. That's just the reality of stuff

Guest: Jed

Not going anywhere,

Host: Eric

Whatever we want to call it. Definitely, hybridity is the new normal and my other, I should have a bumper six as my other cloud a hybrid cloud. Yeah, <laugh> because that's what we've got. And it will be for add Infinitum in effect, even as we think we narrow down to one cloud, some other clouds going to come along. And especially GDPR is interesting because more and more businesses are being affected by this consumer regulatory hit. And we used to call GDPR the go darn, well we didn't use those words but go darn privacy regulations because it's tough to manage. And then if we had a cookie apocalypse, we've got all these things that are trying to slice down how we get access to data, and then underneath it, none of the systems were prepared for regulatory changes and this is what we battle with all the time.

Host: Eric

But more than anything, just like day-to-day operations, we started when we used to back up a system, it was a server, it was a virtual server, it had a web server, a database on it, maybe middleware messaging queue, something like that. But that didn't matter. That was transitory data that just, it's in flight goes away, no big deal. But now that same server is now, it was virtualized and then it was two front end servers with a load balance server and then it was a middle tier and then a back-end tier. But now let's go into a database as a service that we've built ourselves or that's going partly to the cloud and it's hanging off of something else. So the fundamental patterns have changed. And given that your background, Jed, calling on your most recent shift into seeing both sides of it now, what was the progression you saw in just operational patterns for how you built applications? So

Guest: Jed

I would kind of back up a little bit and coming back off from government, I came off of hardcore security in the last couple of years for election security, believe it or not. And believe it or not, a lot of the decisions that were driving back up Dr. You name, it was the public perception, right? So if you said, Hey I want to put a copy of our data in the cloud, of course, you have to explain to people what the cloud is. And it's just some magical word to some people that it's your data, some living in the sky somewhere in Europe, they just don't know that it's just a data center running servers and storage and it's just in a different geographical location. But I think the biggest issue was honestly perception. So it made the job difficult to move to this hybrid scenario that we're talking about.

Guest: Jed

Having our data that 3 21, having multiple copies in different geographical locations was a hard sell because explaining to the public, these people are voters and et cetera it's a difficult sell when you have to get into the politics of things. And I came off of that and it did make the job a little more difficult these days because you have one side, everyone's like security, security, security. We have municipalities and clerks of courts and everything getting hit with ransomware and they want you to respond but then you got one hand tied behind your back because of perception. So it's a balance of moving into this hybrid scenario where you can manage having your data in the cloud. And

Host: Eric

So based on that, we're effectively still in transition. We're going to be in transition for a long time. Really? Absolutely. That's hard to imagine. We keep saying it's here. No, no, no. Got it. One toe in the water

Guest: Jed

Basically. Yeah. So with the application side, we were getting rid of the whole traditional DMZ where you know, have that physical segmentation, say whether it's on a firewall or whether you're using NSX with micro-segmentation we started moving anything that was a web front end. We would start moving to like AWS Elastic Beanstalk. And so anything that was public facing would hit that. And it was scalable and super redundant. And so luckily it was kind of an easy sell and we were at the bleeding edge at my last job and it was nice to move away from some of those legacy scenarios like DMZs and everything. You get the web print up there, you have a low balancer, it's scalable, and it'll spin up depending on what resource usage it is. And the developers got used to it, which was great and all you were responsible for was backing up the database on the back end, right? And it was kind of almost just throw away servers, just spin 'em up, spin 'em down and I don't know, it was nice.

Host: Eric

I was curious too, and what you bring up is the idea that we've probably still observed a lot of patterns that we had before. I remember when we virtualized firewalls and we had virtual I'D virtualized my server environment and then we had virtualized firewalls and then we had virtualized the DMZ inside the virtual networking and the virtual server. But yet I was still asked to set up a three-note cluster purely for DMZ hosts. I'm like, y'all know that this is going through the same physical wire to the top of the rack switch. That's right. Some VLANs's actually protecting us. But yet we were still being asked to put it in a box and by being in a separate rack, a separate virtual server with the same backend networking, it was this perception of safety.

Host: Jon

I think you just touched on that as the perception of safety, the perception that we all once had, that things are still operating in the same way, in the same methodology that they used to be. So nothing has progressed. Some of us have progressed, we've adopted the cloud, we understand the cloud, and we know that it's here to stay. We're not afraid to move to where the education of those who are used to things the way they were and they want to keep doing that and they wanna understand it. I think you touched on it for the developers going with elastic beans stock that they realize that this is freaking cool, and this is going to work for us. We need to start. That's right. Doing the rest of this. Vic, are you saying the same thing, kind of progressing forward with them in the education model that understanding the cloud is the value? There's a lot of value there.

Guest: Vic

Yeah, I think so. I mean we've been talking about, at least for those of us that have been in the vendor space, we've been talking about the cloud for years now, right? 2008, 2010 timeframe. We understood it was going to take some time to get there. Just like virtualization. It took time to finally get people to buy into it, IT leadership to buy into it. It's the same with the cloud. And the way I would explain it is do you use Gmail today? Well that your email's in the cloud, do you use oh 365 you that's in the cloud. So there's still a transition. We're never going to, I don't think we'll ever get to just complete cloud all workloads in the cloud. I think new companies will because it's a little more cost-effective for them until they get to scale. And then they have to start thinking about, well do we bring some of this back on-prem and keep some in the cloud where it makes sense?

Guest: Vic

I think that's what we're going to have. I don't think we're going to get away from the hybridity of it. I think it's always going to be some kind of hybrid environment. But I think the acceptance is there more. They're seeing the value. You're never going to beat a hyperscaler in being able to scale up and scale down as you need. You can't do that with your on-premises environment. So there are some pros and cons there but I think to that degree it's going to be the older legacy organizations out there have started to adopt it just not as frequently as the newer upstart companies that are coming out. Cuz they understand it right off the bat and they can start from scratch and they don't have this large migration of data that they have to do. How are

Host: Jon

Are you approaching customers that are either already fully in the cloud hybrid or thinking about either both or whatever it is from a cohesive standpoint? You enter somebody and they're like, Hey listen, we're worried about our stuff. Okay, so what does that mean? Or we wanna protect our stuff. How do I visualize my stuff? I've got multiple regions or I've got multiple data centers. But how are you approaching that from a scenario portion where customers still wanna move from their data center to the cloud?

Guest: Vic

Well I mean we can help migrate some of that because we already work with AW S today. We can help protect some of those workloads like the R D s c2. Yeah, ct. And so we can do those things today. So if they are looking to migrate some of that stuff over, it's really easy. It's just being able to see it with a cohesive system and then just help migrate some of that over. So that part of it's already there. I don't know off the top of my head, but I don't know which whom we'd work with in that regard. But we support the cloud today, right? So it's an easy migration effort. It's time-consuming, you have to plan for it. But the steps are pretty well laid out now

Guest: Jed

Cuz you can back up existing workflows and then you can relocate them into the cloud COI really does a good job of that.

Host: Eric

And the good thing is that, sorry we just lost our network for a moment there. As we see the patterns changing of the way that applications are being built, the good news is it allows us to revisit and get, the developers tend to have to approach the ops team and say like, Hey, we need a new server using a new service. They're asking for firewall rules, they're asking for different types of connectivity. And that allows us to be like, oh, why are you doing that? And now you are kind of going back to the requirements phase again with stuff. Because we've had these workloads that live for so long and then we moved them around, we virtualized them, and then that was it. They just, they moved around on the plate, the same number of cookies, but we just moved them around on the plate.

Host: Eric

But now it's new plates, new cookies, totally fundamental pattern shift. And it gives us a chance to say, all right, let's go back to the drawing board on how we build an operational pattern now to manage that, the data life cycle, the application life cycle. Because now this problem, the data life cycle doesn't match the application anymore. It used to be you'd protect a server, something goes sideways, restore the server, whamo state zero did. But now you're like, oh, I have a five-tiered application, it's got three levels of mid-tier key-value stores and all this stuff. So if I snap seven servers, how do I understand application consistency and application state if I don't even understand how it is? So we now have to talk to the developers, figure out what the patterns are, and then when we recover an application, which is what we're recovering way different. So it's operationally again, how does that look in the people you're talking to? Are you seeing more people that are moving to these distributed application patterns?

Guest: Jed

I could speak for myself being that I just like I said to just reiterate, I'm coming just off the engineering and administration side. So I bring 'em back to perspective. We have a data set and there's say there's p I in there and everything and so they don't want that data in the cloud. So you end up with your SQL databases on premise and then we have the front end or the application side in aws. So you'll see some places like us at one time of course where you're using two different backup products to backup up the cloud portion and then you use another backup product to back on the on-prem. And which kind of leads us to what ke cohesive does is bring those workloads into one place. I know we we're going to beat that drum a lot I think, but I think it's worth saying so

Host: Eric

Well, and I mean that in effect is the pattern that we need to follow I think of it as the application versus the infrastructure. But if we play it out to its logical conclusion means we have to have one single place in which we can go to understand the state of all parts of the environment. That's right. Including data lifecycle, application placement, including data placement. There are so many moving parts and the only way you can understand that state is to have one central place in which you can go that has an awareness of where this stuff lives

Guest: Jed

And there are inefficiencies. When you bring it back to the DevOps world, there are inefficiencies about actually kind of getting the most value for that data. I know that might sound a little market, but

Host: Jon

Sorry, I've worked in marketing for a long time. A

Guest: Jed

Yeah, yeah. And I'm not an engineer, I'm not a marketing person, but working the last years was mainly in DevOps slash security because I mean you get thrown into that, especially when you work in elections was working with these people to redefine how they do things. So I mean I don't know what your experience is with that. Well,

Guest: Vic

I mean I think to Eric to Eric's point, having a single platform or at least a unified view of everything, not to say the single pane of glass, but that's exactly what it is, right? It's just one place where you can see all your data, having all those workloads under one platform so that where everything is at, being able to back up to the cloud, being able to protect workloads that are living on, I think that's what you're going to need. And being able to protect the workloads and being able to secure the workloads as well. It's one of those value ads that you can't live without today given today's threat landscape. You have to be able to secure the data. And I spent three years over at high trusts, which was just deep cybersecurity. So I know for those of us that are on this side of the fence, it's very normal to us. We can have these conversations, but for someone that's in the customer space, it's a little more difficult cuz that's not what they do. And so it's our job to help 'em understand that and having that platform is going to help simplify a lot of those things for IT leaders and IT practitioners alike.

Host: Jon

So Eric touched on it a little bit for the data life cycle policies and coming from the traditional data center background, man, I feel a little nostalgic every time I <laugh>. Thank you Jed, for bringing back, you call it nostalgia. Well hey, what are you doing afterward? I'm sure they're going to need a couple. So talking about those and defining those workloads that you're backing up, do you remember back then I and everybody did a different method? So this is a platinum lever level and we did a gold, bronze, and silver and then whatever, or whatever's level or T-shirt sizes and then defined my backup strategy based off of these, oh, this application is platinum, we need to back it up every hour on the hour. And then how easy is it to define this and to be actual, have a clear view of these types of applications? Or is everybody in the same type of spectrum? We're doing everybody because the cost is the same no matter what.

Guest: Vic

Well, I mean cost may not be the same, but how much storage do you have? All those questions start to come into play, but it's being able to identify what kind of workloads you have. Some are going to be mission-critical, some are not. And so for those policies like gold policies, you're going to want your mission critical data there for those that may not have stringent requirements or may not have as sensitive data, you wanna maybe use a silver policy for that. But being able to understand what kind of data you have by classification and tagging the data and then moving it to a more secure location and creating those trusted I call 'em a trusted zone versus an untrusted zone where you can get more granular controls over it is going to be very helpful. So you can still do that. It's very easy. It's very easy to define within the Cohesity system already. So it's not a very difficult thing to do.

Host: Jon

Is that still the right methodology and me to do or the kind of way to handle things or has that changed? Because granted, that's the old way we used to do things, you know, had defined it. And I won't name some platforms that we utilize for it, but like, oh, you went on this node versus this node handled your traffic and these are the old data center things. Is there a new way that you think we should define those or look at some of those in the cloud or hybrid that

Guest: Vic

I think in years past, I think it would matter more just because it seemed like every year there was a vendor that was just increasing their speed compute feeds and speeds, and today everything is fast, so it doesn't matter as much. I think it's there as part of the old mentality. So I think that's going to exist for some time, but

Host: Jon

It's just to help us. Old folks still have,

Guest: Vic

For those of us that are north of 50 maybe,

Host: Eric

Well, we had this funny thing, my favorite saying is, you know, call it legacy, I call it production as we do, we have this unfortunate thing and single pane of glass. We've made it a bit of a dirty word. It's a pejorative in Tech Sur, especially in the vendor space, we kind of chuckle like, ah, a single pane of glass, but it it's more like a common gateway by which we manage a thing. It sounds a single pane of glass sounds very, it's one sort of super portals, like a CRM thing you'd have. But really what it is is more than just visibility, it's a control point there. Other systems will consume the systems. It's like the A P I thing. It's like I would ask every vendor that would come into my to tell me about their platform, I would ask them, do you have a fully publicly available restful a p I and F where it's fully documented? I was never going to be sitting there carving out API calls. No, but what I want wanted to know was if they were thinking about this as a manageability feature so that when other adjacent platforms started to tap into the service, we have an API driven methods by which we can access and manage the content that's managed by this adjacent

Guest: Jed

System. I think that's where one place where cohesive excels is with our marketplace it's all API driven and all the partnerships we've made over the past several years to me is pretty impressive, right? Yes, I have I've officially drunk the Kool-Aid and <laugh> it for a good reason though. Because I mean I think Vic was talking about in one of his presentations today and I won't name any names, but basically trying to bring the security team and the admin team and the dev teams kind of together and you might already have some kind of existing platform or for security and doing IT investigations and all that kind of stuff when it comes to runs ware. And having that to be having that integration with our product and having all the big players as partners, I think it gives you bringing it back to added value to your data.

Guest: Jed

And I was drawing a blank earlier when I started talking about DevOps that getting your bang for the buck I think is something where we also excel. Because you can, yes, it could be difficult to get the devs to do things a different way, a more efficient way because they're so used to doing it a certain way, even though to me or to maybe it might be inefficient, where you can, instead of spinning up a new VM in a lower environment with a copy of a database from production, blah blah, blah, they wouldn't run queries against it, this, that and the other. You could just do that from your existing backup data and so you're getting more value and use out of it as opposed to just, Hey, this is my backup data, it's there, I feel protected. Right? You're doing something with it and as well as analytics and again, the marketplace and all that other stuff so you can see what's happening with your data, especially in that security space.

Guest: Vic

Well, we're an open API-first-driven organization. So we do, just to talk about a little bit, what Jed was mentioning is being able to partner or integrate third-party integration with security partners that are in their wheelhouse. So why would we try to reinvent the wheel, right? Yeah, absolutely. Let's a partner with these folks, and get your IT ops and your psych ops to be able to work more closely together. Oftentimes incident response teams that are your security operations teams, have their own set of tools, IT ops have their own set of tools and there's a lot of overlap there, but they don't know what they're doing, what each other's doing. And then when you have that integration, they can work a little more closely together. You can have your security operations folks kick off a job from their systems that tie in with our systemic Cohesity and kick off instant mass recovery as an example so that you can recover in mass. And this is just a satisfy business continuity requirements and move at the speed of their own SLAs. So when you have that collaboration, then it's a little easier. Everybody knows what they're doing and you have that essentially the collaboration going there.

Guest: Jed

Yeah, it's bringing it back to the left hand knowing what the right hand's doing. Yeah, I mean absolutely. It's not always the case

Host: Eric

Or even just the fact that we had to call this practice DevSecOps and people are like, why do we have to say SEC in the middle? I'm like because we didn't invite them to the requirements discussion. We have. But the interesting thing I think is that we developed operational patterns, the concept of instant immutable backups that we could then use for development purposes, or it was for snap recoveries or quick storage for intraday snapshots. And I know snapshots are not backups, whatever. But anyways, but just as a general way, a general protection point at which you could quickly roll back to, and what was funny or ironic or peculiar, whatever, was that we were suddenly opening the door to a security pattern that when we saw ransomware become a thing, I was like, oh wait a second. The same practice we've got where rapid immutable snaps could give us a point where we can capture something that's happening on the fly for investigation.

Host: Eric

We could stop something, we could detect a pattern, but because we built the framework to do this because you've designed the system to be able to be like, I can just run this command and immediately that's it. Everything in my entire section is now immutable, then you're instantly protected. You have a rollback point to the previous incremental, whatever it's going to be. But what started as a, how do I protect my intraday backups, all of a sudden you're like, Ooh, if I use the same idea I can programmatically trigger, so maybe you've got a security partner. And they said, Hey, we've detected inbound ransomware detection. And then that platform via the marketplace could be like, all right, whoosh, snap it all. And that's funny that we accidentally discovered this great recovery pattern and I think that's the right snap it all. Exactly. Lock all the backups. Nobody touches anything because that's the first thing they're going for

Guest: Vic

With it. Yeah, I mean I think the immutable immutability is great. Being able to sandbox that often and being able to do forensics on it is key. I think most security operations wanna do forensics on the ransomware or whatever breach happens. Being able to court that off with immutability so that they're still protected. It is a good thing to have. I think most security operations today wanna do some type of forensics and not just delete something and then move on. They need to understand how it happened, why it happened when it happened, and who made it happen. And so having that capability is a good thing to have.

Guest: Jed

Yeah, I mean you see all the big players rushing to put in viruses and what malware is scanning when you do backups and it's definitely about playing keep up. So as far as technology and keeping your data secure,

Host: Eric

Well, and what I like is that the team and the platform approaches, if you go back to the first appearance in the market, it's always funny that there's the go-to market. The first thing you have is backup. Sometimes they're appliance-based and they become software-based. And when you read into it, if you went into the ethos of the way the platform was developed and designed, you're like, oh yeah, we're finally now however many years in reaching what the founders wrote however many years ago. It takes a long time. Cuz you have to first have to sell a thing, you have to develop and market, and then you grow into your pants of

Guest: Vic

Metamorph metamorphosis.

Host: Eric

Yeah. So it's nice to see that it play out and looking back at the early phase of how it, there's a lot of also Rands in the market in any market, I'm not calling out this in particular, but just we, ransomware becomes a thing and so all of a sudden everybody's a ransomware protection product and you're like, well, but was the platform designed in its core to handle this kind of thing that just so happens that this is a fantastic use case versus like, oh, I'm going to just start putting Ransomware and just for the record, no hackers sit there with one hand and a hoodie. That same stupid stock footage we use for the secure.

Guest: Jed

I love that

Host: Eric

Stock footage I actually used. I'm not using it anymore Anyway,

Guest: Jed

I think one thing that I was used to was again, won't mention any vendors, but they would just be as opposed to working and having partnerships and bringing those APIs to work together they would just make a hack of acquisitions. And as opposed to I'm not used, wasn't used to the model that Cohesity kind of brought to me. I was always used to, hey this vendor bought these X, Y, and Z startups to just make their code mesh together, which only turns into some kind of Frankenstein as opposed to, to me it's a lot more thoughtful when you're working with these partners and we're both getting something out of this partnership. So I would say we're also getting something a little more eloquent. Eloquent as far as, yeah,

Guest: Vic

I mean there's a whole acquiring a company and making it mesh and sometimes it's a necessity. I mean, some organizations that's not in their wheelhouse and so they acquire something. If they do have it, then they're going to code it. They'll code for it and build it all in. I think Cohesity has done a pretty good job at creating a lot of that Mohit, Aaron being the founder and bringing all that experience he had from Google, right? So kind of building the same platform in that manner so that everything can run on it. Google can run YouTube, it can run Gmail, and all those things. We're trying to do the same thing at COHEs. And I think you, you're seeing the fruition of that now.

Guest: Jed

It feels like they say it takes a village and that's what this feels like to me as opposed to bringing it back to where we're a multi-billion dollar company, not cohesive. I'm not talking about doing <laugh>, talking about other companies and just getting these little guys taking what we need from 'em and kind of meshing our stuff together. It's kind of odd to me and, I'm still surprised by it. It's just seeing companies work together. I mean, it's not something I've been that I'm used to. That's not something that I've had a lot of experience with. So it's actually kind of refreshing, honestly. So

Host: Eric

Now let's talk about the, we hinted do it before, we've sort of the sexiness of what we do. That's why they talk about the new kingmakers. It's not about the fine folks in operations that are backing your data up. Always about some kid in a hoodie that just developed a new application that's going to take the world by storm, but yet this is, it's oxygen. But I'd always, he's talking disaster recovery of oxygen services. And people are like, what do you mean by I'm active directory? Simple things. How do you just get the lights on to start with? This is the baseline, everything reboots, okay, let's make sure the hu of the ship is solid, perfect. Get the base lights on, and start the engines. It's unsexy but <laugh>

Guest: Vic

Until you need to recover. And then it becomes the sexiest thing you need.

Host: Jon

But it's the last thing that I think people approach is the recovery aspect. They're like, yeah, I got all my backups, I got all this stuff ready to go. I know it works. You know what, we don't need to test it. And then all of a sudden, oh

Guest: Jed

That's the worst thing

Host: Jon

Ever. They have to

Host: Eric

Test.

Host: Jon

Seriously.

Guest: Jed

We don't need to test recoveries at all. Right? But

Host: Jon

You just feel happy and secure. Listen, I clicked the backup thing. It works right? And when it comes time to it, what happens? You spent a week trying to recover that one file and realize I should have tested it this out. I should have gone through my process this, it should have been a click of a button and restore. But they didn't realize the whole process behind it and the whole thing that it took to do the steps that they thought they could do with one

Guest: Jed

Click. Yeah. Is it just a snapshot or does it have granular recovery, whether it's a file server

Host: Jon

Education on what they're backing. That's right.

Guest: Jed

I mean, yeah, if it's just a Windows file server and you're just doing a regular snapshot, well it makes it a little more difficult to reach in and just get that one little needle in that haystack that you

Host: Jon

Need. Grab it, mount it, and pull out. That's right. And now I just restored 10,000 gigabytes of data for this one megabyte of file. That's right. But don't worry, I got back your Excel spreadsheet.

Guest: Jed

Unfortunately, that's kind of still how it goes for a lot of companies. So I can attest to that out for sure. So you're right. You need to test your backups thoroughly. You need to get on a schedule quarterly, monthly, whatever it is, depending on the criticality of your application and the data that you're housing.

Guest: Vic

So Bill Belichick would've said, do your job <laugh>. Exactly.

Host: Jon

Counting. All right, so now we're quoting. Well, all right.

Host: Eric

I know that intimately because I, given I work for a Boston company and of course in the profit way do your job, it's always gotta sound much better. As John F. Kennedy said, you'll pack your ka <laugh>. But it's,

Guest: Jed

Yeah, you lost me on this port analogy. If it's Gryffindor Hufflepuff,

Host: Eric

All right, I'm okay, I'm good. But I'll let's say if you do not slither in, you better be slithering out. That's the only house that matters. Take your Hufflepuff body outta here. <laugh>.

Guest: Jed

No Muggles are alive. Yes.

Host: Eric

There

Host: Jon

You go. There we go. Well, alrighty then.

Guest: Vic

We just went into a rabbit hole.

Host: Jon

Yeah. Wait, what are we talking about? All right.

Host: Eric

But business continuity I think is that's really what we're after we talk backups, unfortunately, have this, again, it's almost like a pejorative of a backup, but its business recovery was business continuity. And we even used to stop saying disaster recovery mostly because it sounded kind of gross and it had a very negative connotation it. But business continuity is how we deal with various levels. Disaster recovery sort of had this assumption that all right, gone

Guest: Jed

Becomes the hurricane, right?

Host: Eric

Something major. But business continuity is a continuous kind of recovery process.

Guest: Vic

And I think Dr. Disaster recovery is just one part of that. All this documentation and processes have to be put in place.

Guest: Jed

Your run books. Yeah,

Guest: Vic

Run books, yeah. But I mean it's understanding business continuity as a whole. And for organizations, that's really what it's about. Being able to continue business operations, some small to medium-sized SMBs. If they're down for three, or four days, some of these folks have to shutter doors never to open again. So it becomes, for those types of organizations, it's of paramount importance because business continuity is their life's blood. And so they have to be able to continue that. You know, make a good point, Eric.

Host: Eric

And the idea that it's very human-driven, and it is software that manages it. It's software that controls it. But if you don't have the human-driven policies to manage it, in the end, as I said, it was runbooks and we all laughed so hard at that because I'm like, oh yeah, I know that one. Well, your runbook, which is electronic, then printed with a post-it note and then a sharpie over step three, and make sure you do this twice cuz it doesn't work every time. Those runbooks, when we put those into platform into that entry gateway, that one common gateway in which we manage data as a unit across every part of the environments, that's the goal. How do we take human processes, and render them in the software process? And then there's still a human decision. I mean, as much as I automated business continuity with multiple platforms over the decades I've been working, as you can tell by the frown lines and gray hairs when it all came down to it, something goes completely sideways. And if automation was driving, it'd be like, all right, flip it all over. And in the end, you're like, no, no, we always say four-hour recovery, but what if it's four hours and 10 minutes? Do you fail over the entire data center in four hours or do you make a human decision? So we still have to have one-click capabilities, but we can interact with them through other systems.

Guest: Jed

You can automate until the cows come home. But there's always going to be an element of the manual process just for that peace of mind. Is this going to go the way I think it's going to go? You can write it down and wish for the best, but you know, need to approach it in a way where you test it and make sure it works. And

Host: Jon

I think you're touching on that explicitly is talking about that manual process. Think about how we define the data lifecycle for that platinum, our gold-level servers, right? This high-end application. Am I going to want it to be automatically failed over and restored, or do I want a human just saying, eh, I'm not sure? Wait, let's restore it over here and test it out real quick before we do it. Because they didn't test it ahead of time. But you just don't wanna, oh, we're going to touch on the whole business continuity, DR. And restoring a file and what's the value of it? Because people need to be educated on that. But do you really enact a manual restore and then, oh my god, it restored everything and I only wanted one file, right?

Guest: Jed

Yeah, you need, you need to be mindful. That's all I could say about that.

Host: Jon

So it needs a conversation. It does. Every single piece of application that you're doing below a certain level needs a conversation on the level of human interaction and automation implied into it.

Guest: Jed

I mean it does come back to just education, knowing your environment, knowing your data, knowing where it's at, what it's doing. I think that the first step is just knowing and having education about your data, what it's doing and how are you going to recover, and do you want this fully automated stuff can go wrong when you fully automate well failover and things like that. Yeah,

Guest: Vic

It's understanding, right? It's awareness. You can't automate everything. There's just no way. Even automation can have errors in it, right? Cuz we're prone to error. But to what you were saying, Jed, it's really about understanding what kind of data you have, where it's at. I keep coming back to that. And also, which data is critical? Everybody thinks they're data, it's all

Host: Jon

Critical. My dev application as legacy hanging on with a single server is very critical that I meet up

Guest: Jed

All the time. HR and accountings ad gig, Excel file that they should have a SQL database for. I mean that's a common one.

Host: Jon

<laugh> on my desktop

Host: Eric

Though. That's right. That's right.

Guest: Jed

My desktop. So we don't do Roman profiles anymore because users X, Y, and Z have got an 80-gig desktop loading.

Host: Eric

And we used to have this like, wow, I always love when you do business continuity and you have to assign a cost or a price to it. Because I did internal funny money chargeback for the services and people would say like, oh you know what tier is your application? Like, oh yeah, it's tier one. And you're like, okay cool. And you're like, well, because it would be based on RPO and RTO settings. And then based on that, and then you would say, okay, well then it's going to cost this much to manage the application. Let's go with tier two. And you're like, okay, but was it tier two cuz you don't wanna pay for it? Or is it tier two? Cuz as a business rule, you can get away with it. And they'd say, well at tier two you're allowed eight hours of downtime. And we're like, okay, but what if the eight hours just say Monday, 8:00 AM until Monday, 5:00 PM and they're like, oh no, no, no, no, no, that can't be. I'm like, it's tier one then <laugh>. But we're fighting with the cost of operations. It's a real set of trade-offs, right?

Guest: Jed

Cost is a huge deal because say in the DevOps world, you always have multiple environments. You have your lower environments, the application needs to go through dev tests, staging, and then production. And then a lot of times with staging of a production, you like those to be identical. And so they want to treat that staging environment, which there is a cost, right? The disk space, the hosts, and everything like that, cost money. So you're duplicating the cost of staging that you want to be exactly like production and you want to treat it like tier one. I mean like you said, there are these, A lot of times they need to understand that the bucket has a bottom, right? It's not his thing. There's not this pit of money that we could just grab and be like, Hey, all your low environments, we treat 'EM like production. No problem. No, it's

Guest: Vic

All important. Yeah, it's all important until they see the <crosstalk>. I

Host: Jon

Think <laugh>, the education that we're talking about is that the developers and the application owners who are handling this stuff, where they think the application, their application is the only thing they're concerned about. They are tier one no matter what, but they realize that there's a cost associated, it trickles down to the entire company and understanding the value of, hey listen, you're going to have two hours of downtime. No, no, it can't happen. I need a rapid response. Do you know this is an environment that I've analyzed that you only use for one hour a week? Yep. Well, I need it for that one hour. But the cost that you're doing it and it's the education, the conversation that's solely around it. Eric, you've touched on it, is that everything that we're talking about here drives around the cost of what their application's going to do, what kind of backups, what kind of retention, what kind of R P R T O that they want to be tied to this application. And the conversation that we're having is the cost associated with it. They're like, well, I'm not paying the bill, I'm not worried about it, but in the end, everybody is associated to

Host: Eric

It. Well, there's a cost beyond just raw dollar cost. That's huge. But by trying to get around that raw dollar cost, we often make performance tradeoffs. So we use other methods and I mean I always think of sort of that Anakin meme where it's like, you know, did this thing and it's say I've been taking snapshots every five hours for safety. And they said, oh, you get rid of the interim snapshots though. You get rid of the interim snapshots, right? Because what happens all of a sudden you look at why we have four terabytes for this web server? Well, oh because I'm taking snapshots every hour and never getting rid of the old ones. So it's like this continuous iter of we're trying to cheat the system but never going back to what're the first principles? What are we trying to do? And cuz the performance tradeoffs are disturbing and just the capacity tradeoffs and it's a huge risk. And time and time again, be like, let's take a snapshot and snapshots are not backups, but even as a protective mechanism for operations upgrades, if we don't go back and check where that is and we move it to another data center, put it in another region, whatever, just for, we're doing an upgrade and we forget. And that's why again, this idea of one portal for one common pain, try not to use the word <laugh>

Host: Jon

In this conversation.

Guest: Jed

You end up having 40 terabytes of staging data in AWS three that it's been there for nine months. And then when somebody says, what is this bill? It's not going to go to the developer, it's going to go to the engineer and then the administrator from the exec to us directly and they're going to ask those questions. The dev world I love is needed obviously, but sometimes there's that disconnect between what is doable. So like you said, there's always a cost attributed to all these things and it's our jobs as engineers and administrators to take in security and cost into everything we do. So I

Guest: Vic

Call those breadcrumbs, but those are expensive breadcrumbs. They

Guest: Jed

Are.

Host: Jon

Wow, that's a good analogy for it because I think what happened when we were in the data center, and yes, I can come back that thank you, Jed is, I'm going to go hug one after this, but I think we keep coming back to it, is that they never had to worry about the cost cuz it was associated over a five-year term. I bought this data is here and I have to expand it. But now it's back into the developer's and the engineer's hands for the cost to make sure that when they set this, I mean I love the 4,000 terabytes, four terabytes for is a web server data that I'm holding for the lifelong that it's been up for the last six years is that now you have to realize and visualize that I said this, I feel so great. I've got five hours every five hours, I got the snapshot, but you haven't deleted it. Oh, I know I might need six years' worth of da, but no retention policy needs that. Yeah. So understand what you're doing to save these backups, but the retention now comes along with the education, and that you need to clean things up. Yes, the cloud is huge. We can sort massive amounts of data but do you really

Guest: Jed

Need it? No. And I

Guest: Vic

Always ask, where are you getting that retention number from? What's the requirement?

Host: Jon

Right? I forgot to click the button.

Guest: Jed

I think the word that I don't hear a lot, which we should is sprawl means when you have data sets or copies of data sets, it's the same dataset and you have it at multiple locations and then you just forget about it. And then guess what? Some Joe Schmo in accounting is just paying the bill. So as opposed to knowing what data you have and where it's at and saving your company organization, thousands of dollars in say cloud costs or storage, they just keep paying the bill. And I've seen it before and that's why I bring it up. So again, education now, knowing what you have and where you have it and getting into that data sprawl and bringing back to Cohesity and taking advantage of your data, it can save you a lot in cost because you're just using data that you already have, right? You're just making value to that data and you're just reusing it and

Host: Eric

You're moving your policies into that same platform. That's not just about visibility, but truly, but management, which I think is what we've, we see backup is just like, eh, it's a thing that goes on. And we talk about visibility. Visibility's incredibly important, but visibility without an actionable way in which you can interact with it, it's kind of pointless. I could have one spreadsheet that pulls all this data into one spot, but if I can't interact with it, I, it's just any platform like that. So giving visibility, well I can open up, I can put one monitor and just put four windows on it. I got one for this cloud, for this cloud one, one for my data center. Great. I've got visibility. That is a single pane of glass, by the way. Yes. But something goes wrong. Well now, what do I do? Well, we'll have to go to four places to do something about it. And that's the pattern change.

Guest: Jed

And we're not talking about a small chunk of change when we're talking about low environments because a lot of times, yes, they have to be identical to production. And what I'm trying to get at is that with obviously using Cohesity, I would like to get the DevOps world to where they're kind of eliminating these lower environments and making use of the data they already have that's being backed up. Not only is it more efficient, but it's also safer and you're saving a lot of money. I mean, we're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and compute resources and storage and reigning that in. I think it could save people a lot of money.

Host: Eric

It's a chance for us to go, again, back to the first principles of what is it you're trying to achieve. By the way, you're doing this today. Yeah, you have five environments. Why do you have five environments? Like, oh, because I have to do canary deployments and I'm doing, we're getting smart, we're doing DevOps, we're doing blue-greens and all this. Okay, that's great, but we've got a better way you could do that. And that, I think this is where we're a few years out of complete adoption of it, but we have to go back and knock on the door. There are programmatic ways that we can deliver this to you instead of you having to slice a hunk of data, copy it over here, and they've got all these goofy pearl scripts running somewhere just because that's got a library of that somewhere.

Guest: Jed

I mean, what about the human element? I mean that's another cost we don't talk about is that the people who have to manage this sprawl, all these eight different environments in four different data centers where you can reign that in into one platform and you're saving money on the human element people.

Guest: Vic

Yeah, I mean think the question has to be asked, what is a requirement? Why are we doing this? Right? I think at least I'm putting my consulting hat back on the first thing. I'm like, well, it depends. What are you trying to do? What's the requirement? A lot of time they have lofty goals and without understanding what the business requirement is and based on the business requirement, that'll predicate what the technical use cases become. And I think that's one of the elements. Again, education and awareness. And so that's where I always start with, that's where I always my go-to. Like why do we need this?

Host: Eric

And especially if you've got that idea, they'll say like, well, why do you take snapshots every 30 minutes? Well, because my recovery point has to be every 30 minutes. You're like, but that this system gets data dropped into it from another system that has the data. This is a dump spot for read-only data that's coming from somewhere else. Why are you snapshotting read-only data that's already existing in another place? Oh sure. And I think that's, again, going back to put that hat on of go-to requirements, go to first principles, what are we trying to achieve? Because if we don't keep revisiting the stuff, it's easy for them to think that they're stuck. As an application builder, I'm like, I have to build this logic into my code, into the way that I build my app. They don't realize that there are so many better ways that we can interact with them on the upsides to give them what they need.

Host: Jon

Vic is talking about it, and you guys have mentioned it a bunch of times asking about the requirements Do not just jump in there, we can handle it, let's just do it. But understanding the customer aspect and what they're trying to achieve. Don't just implement something and say, yeah, we can do all this stuff. You guys really wanna know and understand everything from nuts and bolts about yes, the application the business requires not because the developer in this group would like a 30-minute retention and recovery and this group won 60 minutes, but our data sprawled all over everything and understanding of things you wanna understand going into each application and the value of those applications and the recovery. And not only the actual, data of resigning it, but what type of data you wanna recover versus a snapshot versus granular data, and then you can come up with a solid plan to achieve these results.

Guest: Jed

Yeah, I think that's accurate. And I think it really kind of boils down to bringing, putting that consultant hat back on is care, just caring about what you're doing. So I think going in as say as a consulting and looking at the environment, what they have and how they're doing things, if you care you, you're going to want to save 'em money and time and resources, right? Because that's your job. That's what you're getting paid to do. And sometimes it's easier to just say, okay, and then just gimme a check. As opposed to taking the time to know their environment, their data set, their priorities, their recovering times, and all their SLAs and all that other good stuff.

Host: Eric

And we've, as we kind of wrap up here, I want to pick on one thing that's important from the other side of it. We've talked this Jed, about your operator up. So you've moved into the vendor space and Vic and I talked a lot and we've been around the vendor ecosystem, you even longer than me, and you've done a lot in a lot of places and had a very profound effect on my understanding of how to be effective as a vendor and where that customer consultant had all the time. And I've mad respect for you always and how I've learned a lot from you over the years and watch how you interact. Your email address means less to me than your approach to things. We've changed companies over time sometimes, but the consultative approach, how do you feel right now being, you've been here for a while and the cohesive approach seems to really, they like that and I feel, is it how consultative can you get and how do you feel about where the customers are and being able to say, Hey, we need help, not just to be sold a renewal license.

Guest: Vic

Yeah, I, I think a lot of it stems from, at one point I was in a customer space and had a lot of the challenges that Jed had and then moving into a consulting role and then a technical account management role and then into a pre-sales role and then a field CTO role. So you understand the various aspects of the business. One is marketing, one is sales, one is support, and one is professional services. But I come back to that because it's being able to understand the customer first. I always go back to understanding the requirements much to the chagrin of my sales guy sometimes. Yeah.

Host: Eric

Yeah. Unfortunate. Well, and we often joke too when people say, oh, I'm a field to O I'm like, you're in sales. I'm in technical marketing, you're in sales. But, it is important. And I think that we have this funny thing that we say, we try and say we're not in sales because we're technologists at heart. And that's why even what we're doing here is getting closer to the technologists in the end. We do know we have numbers we gotta hit, we got quotas the company has to do, otherwise, we don't get to do this stuff. But again, being able to bridge those, that line very well, you are among a few people I know that can do that. Where, and Jed, you're already, I can see the customer first. You're going to carry the brand strongly and you look for the capabilities, but it's customer obsessed. I think it's the theme, man. I

Host: Jon

Was saying, yeah, that's going to quote that for us. Exactly. But I was literally like, man should, I was just going to be like, listen, you guys sound like AWS leadership principles number one, customer obsession. So thanks for touching on that. Exactly. You're reading in my mind. We together

Guest: Vic

Because I was going to say the same thing, it's very AWS

Host: Jon

So we, it's like, we've done this before. So

Guest: Vic

<laugh> been in at this for too long. Yeah. I

Guest: Jed

Think one thing that impresses me about Vic is that he does care. And that's not something you see a lot and not really in technology because again, sales, you gotta be quotas and all these other things, which is new to me in the vendor space. So when you're an engineer or an administrator, it is a little easier to care because <laugh> paycheck's not depending on meeting your quarterly quotas and all that.

Host: Eric

Yeah, no, I didn't do 22 backups this week. So yeah, I'm now on a performance improvement. That's right. Plan. Yeah. We can handle that quickly. Don't worry. <laugh> click that policy, right?

Guest: Vic

Yeah, absolutely. I think again, it just comes down to being able to understand what a customer wants or what they need. Sometimes they don't even know what they need. You bring things up and then all of a sudden the wheels start turning. They're like, oh yeah, we didn't even consider that. But I think that brings value to them and it sets up credibility and then long term, I think they're going to trust you as a thought leader in that space. But you have to be honest, you have to bring some value and solve some challenges that they may not have seen before. I think Cohesity bringing in much more of that data security aspect is what folks are looking for. And you have given today's threat landscape, you have to focus on data security because if that gets compromised and you have no effective way of recovering, you're going to be hurting. Right? Business continuity goes right down the drain.

Host: Eric

Yeah. Yeah. Business continuity is far beyond just like is it up or down. Yeah. It is true that full, it IT continuous security understanding as we move into hybrid environments, where do we recover to? But ultimately it's like what happens to San Francisco sideways right now Even I used to have stuff where you're like, I could do immediately near real-time replication. And someone says, okay, so what happens if we have a virus that deletes stuff? I'm like, then we near real-time delete the other destination too. It's fantastic. The near real-time part works all the time. Yep. Is there a way you can stop that <laugh> like, well no, but we are at the point where we can do that? We can see those heuristic patterns and again, what does it come down to? Visibility's cute, but if I don't have one single common place through which I can be a gateway to actionable outcomes and management and like I said, the partner ecosystem and the humans behind it, it's I'm a fan for sure of how you guys are doing it.

Guest: Vic

Well also I think it's part of, and I know we're trying to wind down here, but I think also a lot of the AI and ml, right, being able to detect anomalous behavior that technology exists today. So I'm looking forward to that to seeing where that goes now. I think building that kind of intelligence into a system is key. I mean it eliminates a lot of the false positives. We heard false positives before people checked on these alerts that weren't credible. And so being able to use a system that can detect that over time is going to be very helpful for both IT ops, security, and operations.

Guest: Jed

And I think what I would lastly say is that a trend that I'm happy to see over the past, I'd say three to five years, is that backups are no longer an afterthought. They're starting to refocus. Organizations are starting to refocus their budgets and understanding that, oh wait, we kind of need this above all else or we might not exist as a company. And I think that trend I hope continues. Hey cuz it's good for business

Guest: Vic

<laugh>. It all comes down to basics and

Guest: Jed

Foundations. Yeah,

Host: Eric

For sure. Especially when we think of how many names end up in the news I was Steven as my personal goal in life to never be referred to as embattled or infamous, either of which tends to mean that something terrible happened that may or may not have been my direct cause. And we see this, we have brands, the brand importance of being safe. Your data's safe, your recovery time is safe. People recognize that cuz it happens. Now I've seen environments that I know that they went through what would've been OG ransomware, like botnets when stuff like mi I came out and that stuff, all of a sudden they're like, you entire environments would shut down, but we didn't hear about it. Now it is pervasive. It's going to be on Twitter by the time we're MAs on. I

Host: Jon

Was say you <laugh> by the time this comes out are you quoting the right platform? Working, talking on

Host: Eric

Twitter may be gone by the time this publishes tomorrow. <laugh>, we'll

Guest: Jed

Be done. We'll all be back on MySpace. So

Host: Jon

Hey, I'm with you on that one.

Host: Eric

I will welcome

Host: Jon

Good

Host: Eric

Friend. I hope that Tom's still out there and still my friend, he

Host: Jon

Is laughing and he's like, man, I'm restarting this stuff and I'll sell it again. Why

Guest: Jed

Not? Yeah.

Host: Jon

Anyway,

Host: Eric

So Jed where do we find you? If people want to continue this conversation and want to hear what you're doing, we wanna bring you up, again, as a new voice in caring for what you did on the customer side. You

Guest: Jed

Can find me on the Twitter verse while it's still alive. Jed Wallace 78, or you can find me on LinkedIn

Host: Eric

And Mr. Vic's virtual

Guest: Vic

Underscore Vic, if you're looking for me on Twitter. On Twitter, I'm not recalling my Mastodon. Yeah. For right now, I'm sure it's some form of virtual Vic

Host: Jon

That is probably difficult for everybody to remember their mastodon and what server they're on. That's right. And they're spelling it out. I mean, don't get me wrong, but as I said, I have one and I can't spell it out.

Guest: Vic

I'm going to do it, Jon. It's put on my Twitter profile.

Host: Jon

They like, Hey, catch me over here if they can looking for me

Guest: Vic

Or on LinkedIn as well. Yeah, I'm pretty accessible.

Host: Eric

And isn't it funny that we all came from the spot, even my morning run group, it's called, still called vfi and you're Virtual Vic and I know so many, many people that are like V something or other, but it's fun funny that we came from that environment and yet before that, I was a Windows actor directory person and I was an OpenStack person

Host: Jon

Server 2008, but

Host: Eric

That was a pre-Twitter handle. I didn't have to pick a thing. But it's funny that we will transcend this over time and the practices that we brought from that history. It's fun to see it play out. And like I said, I'm on in a lot of ways, not just because Vic and I are kind of like the grandparents of our community of

Guest: Vic

Disco Posse, disco biscuit, I, that's it. And on the gravy. There you

Host: Eric

Go there. Well Jon, anything you wanna say in closing up

Host: Jon

Here? I was getting hung. I mean your college

Guest: Vic

<laugh> talking about Thanksgiving.

Host: Eric

Randy,

Host: Jon

Geez. Look, first of all, I'd like to thank you guys for joining us. This has been awesome. You are here at AWS reinvent 22 happening on the floor. By the way, I did capture some content. I'll share with you some. Yes. Some B-roll by the way. Nice. We'll share it. I was, but they looked a little sideways at me. What do you do? And then we'll share it out, but this will make it ow. What booth number are you at and how can people get out there?

Guest: Vic

We are at Booth 4 25. Yeah. And Jed and I and Jon who's behind us, you may not see on camera right now. We'll be presenting at the booth periodically throughout the week.

Host: Jon

Yeah. Awesome. Thank you, guys, so much for joining us. This has been awesome to have you guys here sharing your insights and stories. What's happened, A little nostalgia from Jed on it. Hey, we wanna go sing after this, man. We can wrap this up. We can. That's right. We can end the night on a good note with karaoke. Okay. Thank you, guys, so much. Appreciate it. Thanks for

Host: Eric

Having us. And of course for folks who do want to keep track of this and much more, make sure you go head over to GTMdelta.com/live. We've got a lot more stuff that's coming up the rest of the week and you can catch all the replays and chorus. Follow Mr. Jon Myer. Make sure you go to Jon Myer it's jonmyer.com if you wanna see everything from Myer Media and of course go to cohesity.com. We get a lot of great stuff that's going on there. Great blogs too. I gotta shout out that it's much more than just what we do. And I love that approach. Again, taking that agnostic approach and we call it thought leadership, but in the end, it's like actual practical skills that you can hand to a human and they appreciate it and the net result is then they look, Hey, well how can you help me solve this problem? Well, okay, now we're having a real conversation. But I love that. Start with the first principles. What do we need to accomplish? And let's get it done. So there you go. Shout out to the coy team and we'll see you all back on the stream. Don't forget, to follow the Twitter hashtag if you're still on Twitter. Hashtag LVreinvent22.

Host: Jon

It's available on LinkedIn.

Host: Eric

We already did this. We will be on mass I'm sure by the morning. But at any rate, it's great to be a part of this, and thank you all.