Ep#92 Sustainability in the Cloud with AWS

September 27, 2022

Episode Summary

Anna Green, Head of SMB, Asia Pacific, and Japan joins us to discuss the importance of Sustainability in the cultural shift and how organizations are working harder to achieve their sustainability goals. Consumers are conscience when selecting who they are purchasing products from and if that company is doing its part to eliminate waste.

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Anna Bio Pic2

About the Guest

Anna Green

Experienced Technology Business Leader, Chief Executive Officer and Board Director with a demonstrated history of helping institutional and enterprise customers transform to digital business models with specific expertise in banking and finance.

Skilled in International Business Leadership, Strategy and Digital Transformation, Cross Border and Cross Functional Team Management, Risk Management and Financial, Legal and Regulatory Compliance.

Strong Business Development Professional graduated from INSEAD.

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Episode Show Notes & Transcript

Host: Jon

Please join me in welcoming the Head of SMB for Asia Pacific and Japan for AWS, Anna Green, back to the show, Anna, thank you so much for joining me.

Guest: Anna

Hello, Jon. It is fantastic to be joining you again, and it's lovely to see you in your new environment.

Host: Jon

Oh, thank you so much. So Anna, we've been trying to get together for a little bit,  back in June, July, it was actually gonna be in person. We've had a reschedule, but now we are back and you're joining the podcast and I really appreciate you taking the time out. This is gonna be an awesome one.

Guest: Anna

Yeah, for sure. And talking about my favorite thing, which is sustainability. So it's very cool to be going a bit deeper with you on that.

Host: Jon

Oh, nice. So our topic today is the business of sustainability as a digital journey. Anna, it's been a while since we last spoke, what have been some of the trends in sustainability that have stood out to you?

Guest: Anna

Yeah. And since we spoke, you know, what's great, Jon is we're seeing so much moment in this space and, and again, it's great because it, it really does make a difference. , not just to the communities in which we live in, but, but from a, from a global perspective. So we're seeing a lot of movement. , sustainable business practices are continuing to dominate both the public and private sector decision-making. And it's really interesting for me running the SME business across a PJ is that these commitments are, are happening, not just in the domain of large enterprises, but, but really across the board. So all businesses are thinking differently, about sustainability and sustainable practices. , we see all businesses basically de-marketing a position in the markets,  and trying to think differently about using,  technology and in particular, reducing their own carbon footprint through the use of cloud technology.

Guest: Anna

, a really interesting point there was recently that the Boston wire study, it was the recent global sustainability study done by them is that 85% of consers have become greener in their purchasing in recent years. Jon, so that's interesting because it's telling us that there's a, there's a change in the way that people are actually thinking about their spending practices. 50% of customers rank sustainability as a top five value driver for them. So the relative importance of, of sustainability during the purchase process is changing and it's gonna continue to increase,  and companies really need to be acting now to stay relevant in the future, and in fact, what we're seeing is, environmental, social and governments, disclosures are actually now becoming also a top priority for investors. So leading investors are looking differently at the way, the profiles of the companies in which they are investing, and they want to see industries standardize their sustainable businesses practices and their standards. So really interesting stuff happening, Jon.

Host: Jon

Okay. Let me ask you a question. It seems that you're saying customers and investors are looking for companies that are driving toward sustainability. Now it's a forefront in their mind. It was once I don't wanna say like something that was an afterthought, but it wasn't as big and as prevalent, but now it seems to be a hot topic for everybody to drive towards this same initiative.

Guest: Anna

Yeah, you're absolutely right. , and that's happening for a number of reasons. , we are seeing really intentional stricter regulation around this, in which governments and policy makers are requiring that companies are held to a much greater accountability standard when it comes to climate disclosures. , and this has come off the back of recent global summits. So we've seen the world economic for 2022 and also co 26, where governments have actually been encouraged to commit to stop deforestation, and also the public financing or fossil fuel projects. So, we're seeing a complete change in, in which the policies that are regulating this industry, are being created and, and thought about. , and recently we saw the G seven leaders smit,  where the net zero asset owner Alliance proposed that governments actually introduce legally binding carbon prices to encourage the transition to a low, low carbon economy. And this is really, you know, this is new ground for the industry generally and definitely for, for a combined governmental approach on this. And what it's telling us is that there is a lot of action that's governments in the, and commitments around sustainability

Host: Jon

Of the government's talk of technology. Does the technology sector have a role to play in creating this global change?

Guest: Anna

Yeah, let's be clear on this. Jon, the technology uses energy, and the technology sector contributes to global energy usage. That's important as well as the missions and waste. So we actually, the technology sector plays a dual role here. We both need to enable our customers to create and innovate, sustainable solutions. , but we also have to be advocators of change in this space. So, we see that cloud a, as technology is accelerating the innovation on the path to a net zero carbon outcome, according to a recent 4 5 1 research study, the cloud has been able to help organizations in a PJ reduce their carbon footprint by 78% just by using sustainable. It, the report also found that the cloud is five times more energy efficient than the average on-premises data centers used by companies and public sector orgs in a PJ.

Guest: Anna

So we're seeing real material, progress that can be made by companies by using cloud technology. , and then, of course, the sourcing of cloud tech,  of the sourcing of renewable energy is something that, that we, we need to take seriously. And it's not unique to a PJ in that context. So there are businesses around the world right now who are trying, and are facing similar challenges about how they source sustainable energy. , and even with that, we need to be supportive of policies,  from the government that helps to promote, the creation of renewable energy sources, and also the affordability of that. , and for us at AWS, we are on track to run on a hundred percent renewable by 2025. , we're five years ahead of our original goal, Jon, which we're proud of. , but you know, making the cloud run on wind and sun and hydropower is only a, a part of our responsibility that we as developers are seeing as, as important in sustainability context.

Guest: Anna

The other thing that I wanted to talk about was that we're seeing, a real switch in the way that developers are thinking about, switching off resources, right? So always on is a mantra that we use a lot, Jon, but it comes with the cost. So we're seeing that always on architecture is something that, that developers are thinking differently about as well when they are creating, architectures for their businesses. And as, we've heard this magic before, which is the greenest energy is the energy that we don't use. So it just means sustainability consciousness is starting to become part of architectural decisions, as well as the broader,  approach that we have towards influencing policy and using renewable energy,

Host: Jon

20, 25 is just right around the corner. So that is a huge accomplishment to push it ahead five years, because when I always envision that my goal is 10 plus years out, it's like, you never see that goal happen, but 20, 25, I mean, I, I can just see it happening when it's announced that you're 100%, by that time, I wanna talk about the always-on mentality as a developer or a business, having your application always on is very crucial. You always wanna running. So does it mean like you wanna start switching things off and have a delay in your application or a delay in a response, or you want to utilize some of the cloud services to scale one needed?

Guest: Anna

Yeah, I think the latter, Jon, I think what we're trying to do is,  you know, obviously service to our customers is paramount. , and that what we're, what we're seeing is that customers are choosing, they have the choice using cloud technology to be able to switch off and to be able to manage their carbon footprint, their sustainability outcomes with their business, by making choices around the use of our technology. So, it's not about not having the capacity to, to be always on which absolutely we do using AWS. It's about making choices around whether or not you really do need to be on all the time. And, and it's great for our customers and our censers to have that choice.

Host: Jon

So cloud is playing a crucial role in sustainability goals. Can it help organizations with managing those associated costs that are transferred to more of sustainable operations?

Guest: Anna

, absolutely. We see it with all of our customers. , we've got some really great examples, of cloud it helping to reduce and in really different and interesting ways. So, you know, the top line, impactful statement for me around that is that car computing is five times more energy efficient, efficient than on premises datacenters , and then again, we see that businesses that migrate on premises, it to the cloud can actually result in a net reduction of 80% in energy use and carbon emissions. So that as just a, a general catch all is a pretty cool outcome.  if you are thinking about changing your it stack, but we've got, as I said, some great customer examples, so Coca-Cola saved 20% on their energy and 9% on their water by using digital twins O T and AI ML services to improve their processes.

Guest: Anna

So they're using our services to think differently about a whole, a multiple different, uses of, of, resources in a very different ways and impactful ways. , we also have,  the fantastic Australian business that hasn't just used,  our technology themselves and, and benefited from that, that carbon footprint reduction. They've actually created solutions on the cloud, which is helping their customers to scale ingest information and build solutions, to reduce their energy bills by 30%. Now that's a material saving for the business. So we're seeing it both in the way customers are using our services and actually building services for their own customers, which again is very cool and points to that whole pay-as-you-go approach, which means that individual organizations are, are building and thinking differently about the use of energy by being able to like a light switch, Jon, turn it on, turn it off when you need it.

Host: Jon

Okay. Real quick, 85% of the reduction going to the cloud. That's huge. And here's what I envision coming from a traditional server environment. My data center is always on, you're always running a server, nobody's going in there or empowering it on is running. And it's available to you when you need it in six months or a year, but with the cloud, you just spin it up when you need it, turn it off. When you don't utilize the auto-scaling features that are available to you or the efficiency of digital twins. Now, digital twins, I think is awesome when they announce it and released it because I do not need a whole other environment set up. It's a virtualized, it's a, a simulated environment that it's going to react and kind of function like your current environment. I think that was huge in the cost savings plus, you know, going on to IML. I'm a big fan.

Guest: Anna

<laugh> thank you. And I'm sure we could have another whole conversation about that, but I think, you know, what you're doubling down on there is that pay as you go approach and what we've seen in technology traditionally and historically, is that, you know, customers being locked into, licensing contracts, long term contracts, complex payment models, all associated with your it, and what we've found and our customers keep telling us is that it's just so excellent for them as they're planning their business, both the, you know, the revenue that they're able to generate and the profit that they can make, simply because they're able to, to change the way in which their, their payment models for their it services happen and the upside, which customers are often really surprised and happily surprised by is that, that it's a much better sustainable outcome for them as they build their businesses for the future.

Host: Jon

So, Anna, what do you think differentiates organizations that are able to turn sustainability commitments into sustainability action?

Guest: Anna

Yeah, this is a really hard one, Jon, because it it's a struggle. It's the beginning of the journey, you know, these type of,  metrics, which only just starting to understand how to measure them, how to track them. And as you know,  data is,  the key in all of this as it always is, and which is why AWS is in such a great position to help our customers around this. And what we've found and seen is that organizations who struggle to, to actually translate this sustainability commitments into action, don't have tangible, tangible goals to work towards a timeline, to work towards them, or a process or a system of measuring progress. So they're the three things you've gotta have goals, you've gotta have timeline, and then you've gotta actually have a process in place to actually measure progress and track and keep teams accountable for that.

Guest: Anna

, and again, the good news for us is that we've thought very intentionally about that as we build our services, which means that technology is a great enabler. In that context, you can actually use AWS technology to support tracking and management of sustainability progress. , we, we can create this, we understand the sustainability and metrics better, and we actually automate sustainability reporting by some of the services that we've built. , so last time we spoke,  we talked about the, the AWS well architected framework, and we've now got the sustainability pillar that's associated with that. What that helps our customers to do is to learn, measure and improve their workloads, using environmental best practice for cloud computing, which is a, a really big win for us. And we're really proud of that achievement. We've also created sustainability design processes, Jon, which again, best practices that can help organizations who are new to it, to understand how to accelerate action so they can understand their impact by measuring their business outcomes.

Guest: Anna

They can actually establish sustainability goals by setting long term goals for their, the workloads and the models, and the return on investment, which is always important for business. , and then maximize utilization by making sure that each workload sizing, will maximize the energy that, that they are using in the underlying hardware. , so again, lots of things that we are doing with our services, including I think finally the AWS customer carbon footprint tool, which we are very proud of,  which is a dashboard that provides our customers with the carbon footprint of their use of AWS services to support the carbon reduction goals.

Host: Jon

And I like how AWS is building in sustainability into all their services. So as you're using a new service or an existing service, it's taking an account on how well you're being sustainable within your goals in the environment. I know we've talked about in previous ones, you know, right. Sizing, that's always like key, right? So your cloud optimization and not just cost optimization. And I think that plays a role specifically into sustainable, right? So what you're doing is you're trying to not only, you know, reduce your cost, but you're looking at the overall big picture of not having waste out there and reducing your cost and the waste at the same time. So I think that's really key and I enjoy that. They're adding this into all their services.

Guest: Anna

Yeah, absolutely. And, and again, that'll be more, you'll see more and hear more about that because at, you know, at AWS, we're about the democratization of, of technology, and right sizing, and thinking about how that might work for every single customer in use case is part of what we wanna do when we're building these services.

Host: Jon

So, and I wanna jo over to the partner ecosystem because I know AWS is really geared towards a lot of the partners to help achieve some of these goals. Can you tell us more about the importance of the partner ecosystem and driving a sustainable impact?

Guest: Anna

Yeah, I can. What I can tell you is that this conversation and these issues are not gonna be solved by only one organization. , it's a shared responsibility that we here at AWS share with everyone in the communities, in which we operate. We take it seriously, and we really wanna partner with as many different stakeholders in our, in our, environment to be able to drive sustainable outcomes for the world, for the business, and for the communities that we operate. So we have an amazing ecosystem of, of,  partners of stakeholders that we work with across AWS. , and, you know, just give you some, some idea of numbers. , at AWS, our partners offer hundreds of tools and features, and they have,  over a hundred thousand and they come from over a hundred thousand partners, from more than 150 countries in AWS.

Guest: Anna

And, you know, when we think about the tools and features that we have built, as well as the tools and features that they have built, we are seeing just a, a massive impact that we're able to build and, and drive across this, this environment of different stakeholders across the world, really. , and then as of May 2022, for instance, we have more than 12,000 listings from over 2000 sellers and more than 2 million current software subscriptions from over 325, active 325,000 active customers. The reason I'm giving you those numbers, Jon is because it, it just doubles down on the message, which is AWS is absolutely committed to, to building and growing our sustainable, outcomes without customers. But we also have this amazing community of people who we work with, to help them to build and grow sustainable,  products, and services, and think differently about how to apply a sustainability goal and metrics approach to their businesses as well. So it's not just us, it's everyone around us and the ecosystems that we work in. , and we make sure that we are really focused on, helping our customers, our partners, governments, and communities around us, to think about how to drive sustainable outcomes.

Host: Jon

And I noticed that in the AWS marketplace and the sustainability partners listings on AWS's website is huge. It's actually growing startups are definitely a key value. That's playing a role in these, along with enterprises. So it's nice to see that not only is Amazon driving towards this goal, but we're doubling down on the partner ecosystem for sustainable startups and partners to help reach these goals out there.

Guest: Anna

Yeah. And we also recently announced the AWS energy competency program, which identifies highly specialized AWS partners that have the technical expertise and, and can help to repeat customer success in actually building their own energy, efficient solutions. So we're not just working with customers and helping them to build solutions. We're also making sure that we are, we're directing traffic around how to help, people in the community who are interested in, in building sustainable products and services, and, and partnering them up, matching them, making sure that we are building that ecosystem and building that, that conversation ourselves within our business.

Host: Jon

I think it's actually big of AWS to identify that they can't do this on their own and to leverage partners who can help not only in the sustainable area, but also for their customers leading towards their nber one leadership principle, customer-obsessed. So, and,  speaking of partners, I'd like to actually jp into a couple of examples. What are some of the most recent examples of partners driving sustainable change that have made an impression on you?

Guest: Anna

Yeah, as I said, I love what our, our large enterprise customers are doing and, and doing intentionally, around really building, some, impactful, sustainable solutions with our cloud services. But I, as a, the head of the SME business, I'm also deeply inspired by customers who are U using our services to build solutions, that are helping the communities in which they're operating here in a PJ. One of those is Rubicon, a fantastic company that is actually created and, and offers devices that regulate water flow in big canal systems, onto and within farms. And they are using clouds computing to automate the distribution of water, which is again, a really interesting and helpful use of cloud technology, because of their focus, they've been able to make a really big difference to the sustainability outcomes of food on the planet. , they've just designed software and devices that orchestrate the delivery of water, in really innovative ways.

Guest: Anna

And what we are seeing through the use of that technology is that some farmers, that they have helped to support are actually seeing water on their farms for the first time in 30 years. Now, I love that story because it's, it's talking about an impactful, use of technology in a really intentional way that it's helping the communities in which they operate to, to not only are they saving money by using, oh, sorry, saving energy by using cloud computing technology. They're also helping, to change the way in which the world is able to access food and water. It's a pretty great,  outcome. That's come from thinking differently about using technology.

Host: Jon

I think what they're doing is they are saving that money, but they're saving valuable resources, right? So the water, the resource from being and going elsewhere, or being overused in a certain environment, they're actually redirecting into environments that could utilize it and have the most impact.

Guest: Anna

Yeah. And it's, you know, that's only one example, but it's the one that it, that I pivot on because it's a really,

Host: Jon

I actually like that exhibit on what I'd love to do is get a link to that example and share it out to everybody. I, I'm pretty sure there's a case study audit, and there's a video that has to go with it because AWS always makes the most impactful videos to show you how the value of using not only IOT, but how Rubicon did it and how they're being sustainable and helping out farmers at the same time. I mean, you guys are like hitting all the points.

Guest: Anna

Yeah. And it's just amazing stuff that's being done with the, our technology in aggrotech, in, you know, use of energy and minerals and resources. It's just a, a vast, bunch of customer use cases that we really want to share. We really want to make sure that people understand how technology can be used, to impact, the use of resources on our planet in a positive way.

Host: Jon

I think what you're doing is you're empowering everybody to envision what are the possibilities that can happen with cloud services? You just give 'em a little bit and say, Hey, listen, these are what other people are creating and just letting people run with it and seeing how they can innovate.

Guest: Anna

Yeah, totally. And again, to the leadership principles, you know, with success, comes responsibility. , and I, I really, I feel that that is a leadership principle that we are living by, by trying, in as many different ways as we can to really,  apply our thinking, to helping our customers,  use our services in positive ways in ways that that help,  sustainable outcomes on our planet.

Host: Jon

So, and I'm gonna wrap things up and I like things that come into threes. So what are some of the things that you think organizations need to do to drive a sustainable change?

Guest: Anna

Okay. I can, I can cut it down to three for you, Jon. I think the first thing, and again, it's been through,  observation of customers that have done this well and companies that have done this well, the first thing you have to do is really build sustainability into the culture of your business. , your business has to really live it and breathe it. , sustainability has to become a key factor in every business decision that you make. , if you haven't already fully embraced the urgency of being kinder to our planet. , so by embedding sustainability into the company, culture, businesses can actually empower their employees with a better understanding, of the importance of sustainability and ensure that the entire organization is on the same page. And, and in enabling that, that understanding you your business can then take concrete steps to implementing initiatives to actually achieve sustainable goals. Number two,

Host: Jon

Can I jump there? I got, I gotta jump in. I have a question for you. So it, the culture of changing it, I think, well, it's kind of a sort of a question let's just put away. I think Amazon taking the first step and as big as they are saying, this is our goal, this is what we wanna achieve is driving that culture change down and saying, Hey, listen, we take, we have a great responsibility and we wanna empower everybody else to go ahead and do the same thing. And it's a culture change. And so Amazon is huge. I mean, millions of people, right? And having them take that shift and change that culture internally is huge. And look at it. I mean, literally since you've been driving it for years now, the culture has shifted. I mean, you guys are probably 20, 25 renewable. I mean, your partners on there are listings that wanna be sustainable. People only wanna work with sustainable partners and then customers only wanna buy from sustainable companies. I mean, that is a huge culture shift. And I mean to JP in there, but I had a huge thought off of it.

Guest: Anna

No, you're absolutely right. And, and it's good that you said that because I've worked in many organizations where, or several where it's been a journey, and what you tend to see, as I said, pivoting to my earlier comment is that large enterprises have really started taking this conversation seriously, but it's equally as applicable to businesses who are just starting. And the reason that's interesting is to my earlier point, our workforce now, the, the people who are interested in, in, applying for jobs, they care about sustainability. They care about working for an organization that wants to help the planet. So it's not only, you know, the right thing to do. It's also good business practice for your teams to make sure that they feel like they're working in an organization that's being driven by purpose. And I've really seen that a, as a resonating factor in the way in which, companies can be successful. Building a culture around sustainability is an effective way to not just help the places in which you are operating, but also make sure your team feels like they're doing something that is valuable for the world in which they live in.

Host: Jon

I think customers will pay more for service equality if the company is sustainable because they know the value and the effort into it. And I think having a sustainable,  I wanna say, you know, out there a brand or a presence from a company, and it says, okay, I'm gonna go buy a pair of jeans where these made in a, a sustainable fashion, as best as possible and prove it. And then you see it and you go like, all right, that's what I want. That's the service, that's the stuff that I wanna buy from, because I know they're doing the right thing.

Guest: Anna

Yeah. This is why it's everything that we talked about right at the beginning, consumers are buying sustainability. It's, it's one of the decisions that they are making when they are using, they are, they are thinking about what they wanna spend their money on. So it's really important. And it, it, you don't have to, it's in no way, is that cynical, that's actually the reality of the way that people think now, which is wonderful to me. It's fantastic. Cuz I think about when I was growing up Jon, which is I'm sure very much earlier than when you were growing up. ,

Host: Jon

No, I wouldn't <laugh> these are <laugh>, you know, no things,

Guest: Anna

<laugh> things like recycling things like how am I using, do I turn, turn off the light? Do I turn on the light? Do I use the heater? These are kind of like personal decisions that you make along the way and you and I can all, but can both contribute to, sustainable outcomes by managing that. But what's wonderful now. And what's really encouraging now is that industry is involved in that conversation. Government is regulating that conversation. We are standardizing what needs to be done in that space and we're seeing improvements and we're seeing material change in the way that we approach these discussions and we are doing something positive for the planet. And that makes me happy.

Host: Jon

So I, I believe we got to all three of those, we didn't call now. So, so the first one you called out the, the second one was the long term and sustainable goals. And then the third one was the governments and that, you know, the, the organization's achieving sustainable goals. Correct?

Guest: Anna

Yeah. I okay. I'm amazed that you were able to summarize them so easily, but yes, that's exactly what we wanna see. Those three things

Host: Jon

<laugh> I, I like the power of three, but I wanted to make sure for our audience that we called out there, we did get to all threes, but in a general conversation and the importance of those, I, first of all, the long term stuff, when we were talking about this, is that when we were growing up and it, you, I don't think we're far off by the way. So we'll just go with that. , I am much older. <laugh>, let's go back to the topic.  so we weren't growing up in that type of mentality and to change the culture for us is longer than to change the culture for the younger generation, right? So they're growing up with this day in and day out, but having governments play a key role in this and setting in some standards is just saying, Hey, listen, we wanna look out for the long term of our environment. We wanna look at the long term of, you know, our kids that are growing up and our grandkids and everything. And we want to make sure that we don't run outta resources.

Guest: Anna

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, that's a very sensible and pragmatic approach and it's a forward-thinking approach and it's taking responsibility and accountability for your business decisions and the way in which you structure your business for success for the future, you don't do that at the cost of the environment. And fundamentally that's where we see business driving. That's certainly what we are trying to do is we build our own business at AWS for the future. , and it's just, it's so, inspiring for me to be able to, to have a point of view on the way that customers are using technology to really change the game in that space and for AWS to be able to help on that journey for me is, it's a real pleasure.

Host: Jon

So, everybody, we've got more on sustainability coming on the podcast. It's a very important topic to us. I'm sure Anna's gonna be joining us again in the future. I can guarantee. And can I put you on the spot? Are we gonna have you on it in the next couple of months? Maybe

Guest: Anna

I think we are already too. We're already done too much together, Jon, for me to say no to that. Absolutely.

Host: Jon

<laugh> first of all, we'll have to try to definitely do it in person one the next time. And I, I love talking to you the inspiration and information you have and the, the conversation on how it flows. Do you have anything you'd like to leave with the audience before we close things up?

Guest: Anna

I think what I want the audience to, to understand is that these are issues that will continue to be important in a business context, but are really more important just from a, a, a responsibility context for anyone who's doing business, regardless of whether you are a larger or small organization thinking differently about how you can make an impact to your carbon footprint or the use of energy on the planet is the right way to do business.

Host: Jon

So, and then I have to go back to our things of threes. Number two, it's a long term goal. This is not, you don't get to complete this goal. This is not something that you check this box off. Sustainability is here and it's an every day, every year type thing where you never actually accomplish the, the, the full aspect, you can accomplish it for being 100% sustainable, but there's always projects out there. There's always things that you need to achieve. And we have to keep striving towards 'em and seeing that AWS is doing this first and Amazon as a whole is very inspiring.

Guest: Anna

Well, I'm very pleased that, that you feel that way, Jon. I also feel that way and I'm excited to be able to have these conversations with you.

Host: Jon

Yes,  may as well. Anna, thank you so much for joining me.

Guest: Anna

That's my pleasure. Have a great day.

Host: Jon

Yes, everybody. Anna Green, head of SMB for Asia Pacific and Japan at AWS. Thank you so much. I'm your host, Jon Myer. Don't forget to hit that light subscribe and notify because guess what folks, Anna we're outta here and wait, one more thing for you. Alexa, turn off the podcasting lights.

Guest: Anna

<laugh> great.

 

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